Andrew Sullivan cites some worthy reader “dissent”:
Count me among the folks who take the President’s views on foreign policy seriously.
I believe – and have for some time – that the struggle we face is as much between those of us who believe that there is evil in the world and it cannot – will not – go away with appeasement and those who believe that if we can just find the right words that those who hate us will all of a sudden change their ways OR of we just leave them alone “they” will leave us alone.
President Bush is a good man who has tried to do what he thought was best for the country without regard to the political costs. Calling him a war criminal is an easy and unfortunately popular thing to do these days – but the real debate needs to be over what do we do to both protect ourselves and our allies and gain the kind of rights to which we believe all men and women are entitled in the Islamic world.
A religion that permits – indeed requires – the murder of gays and women who go against the principles of a barbaric code is not a religion and it is time we all deal with this “elephant in the room.”
Bush = good. Muslims = evil. The government is owed our unconditional support. It is our duty to defeat the false religions. It’s all sensible because I choose to believe it. I am very brave for saying so. One suspects these few self-evident truths can be repeated at very high volume for long, long periods of time, endurance extended beyond normal human limits by excising any vestigial doubt. This is – minus the charmingly parochial idea that we must wage War on Islam out of a concern for gay rights, obviously – the Republican base, still crazy after all these years.
And it’s this base, and those attracted by the self-serving simplicity of this vision, who John McCain is counting on in November. If the war in Iraq were being managed like any other sort of real-world endeavor, it would have closed down years ago. All the major requirements have either been achieved (Saddam deposed, elections held, etc.) or Overcome By Events (hunt for WMD, connections to al Qaeda, etc.) The top-level MS Project spreadsheet is showing completion, and any sort of dissatisfaction you may have with the results needs to be chalked up to either the inevitable vicissitudes of geopolitics or – if this happens to be one of our infrequent “accountability moments” – fatal errors made in the design phase. You look for answers there.
But the “war” is not, as the President says, the usual kind of war, and so cannot be judged by the usual material standards. (And a good thing, too. War fans like to compare our current struggle to WWII. If WWII ended with allied tanks rolling in to Berlin only to discover that there was no such place as Poland, it would be a near-perfect historical analogy, but probably not be such a popular mythical-historical point of comparison for people looking to justify misconceived and badly-run ventures.) It is, as Sully’s reader has noted, a test of faith. You have to develop your personal relationship with the Iraq War, understand that it loves you and will answer your most tangential prayers, and cultivate your faith that your personal political vindication ( for gonzo libertarianism, liberal interventionism, neocon imperialism, pop eschatology, etc.) will come on this battlefield, and by convincing others to share in your faith. It is, in other words, a religion – albeit one which has required the deaths of 83,000 civilians, or 150,000, or more, as well as thousands of combatants. Some might consider this “barbaric”, an elephant drenched in blood. Unbelievers.
May 17, 2008 at 8:04 pm
It’s easy because it’s true.
May 17, 2008 at 9:41 pm
Can it be that Andrew will recant once again? Leave the burnished elitism of Obama for the crude, but somehow truthful, challenges of McCain? The world waits, with baited breath.
May 17, 2008 at 10:34 pm
[...] The Editors: War fans like to compare our current struggle to WWII. If WWII ended with allied tanks rolling in to Berlin only to discover that there was no such place as Poland, it would be a near-perfect historical analogy, but probably not be such a popular mythical-historical point of comparison for people looking to justify misconceived and badly-run ventures. [...]
May 18, 2008 at 1:32 am
Sullivan’s dissenting reader is entirely correct!
When will someone stand up to the decadent left enclaves on the coasts who are mounting a fifth column even as we speak?
Who will take on the pampered journalists, who have never seen a moment of real censorship in their lives, and who have marginalized conservative voices for their entire careers in their own organs and field of influence, and take the occasion of the massacre of thousands of their fellow citizens to worry about themselves — and preen self-righteously at the same time?
May 18, 2008 at 1:40 am
Incidentally, Sully seems to have entirely deep-sixed his “decadent enclaves” column.
For those who still think that–along with his pimping The Bell Curve–it still represents the essence of his political “thought,” this is a grave loss.
Anyone know where on teh interwebs it might be stored?
May 18, 2008 at 5:37 am
“A religion that permits – indeed requires – the murder of gays and women who go against the principles of a barbaric code is not a religion and it is time we all deal with this “elephant in the room.””
Sort of describes the Christianists doesn’t it?
May 18, 2008 at 7:35 am
“I believe – and have for some time – that the struggle we face is as much between those of us who believe that there is evil in the world and it cannot – will not – go away with appeasement and those who believe that if we can just find the right words that those who hate us will all of a sudden change their ways OR of we just leave them alone “they” will leave us alone.”
Couldn’t agree more. And all the more reason to impeach. Both of them, mind. Because half-measures just won’t do–not in this, our epic struggle against a mortal threat to our democracy.
May 18, 2008 at 7:35 am
(LOVE my icon! It looks just like me. How do you do that, Eds?)
May 18, 2008 at 7:44 am
I can see you through the computer screen.
May 18, 2008 at 10:25 am
And it’s this base, and those attracted by the self-serving simplicity of this vision, who John McCain is counting on in November.
Alarmingly, this base is not small. the real problem with views displayed by Sullivan though, is the sheer unwillingness to accept any evidence that challenges a priori assumptions here. I know plenty of people who were nice liberals and who either supported the war or went along with it. Not being completel dumbasses, they have all now agreed they were wrong and are upset with the leadership of the US/UK for the conduct both leading up to and during the war. Anybody who doesn’t take this position, as you say, has wondered from the realms of sensible discourse into the holy lands of the true beleivers.
Just makes you think, at what point will these people actually admit they got it wrong? Disturbingly, I can’t see such a point being reached.
May 18, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Hey, what is it with that illustration of Sully over at the Atlantic? Does he have two basset hounds and a wife/girlfriend or longhaired boyfriend? Did someone confuse him with TBogg?
May 18, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Hey, what is it with that illustration of Sully over at the Atlantic? Does he have two basset hounds and a wife/girlfriend or longhaired boyfriend?
I dunno. But if hundreds of people emailed him, asking those questions, I would love to here the answers.
May 18, 2008 at 4:52 pm
I wrote: “here the answers”
For you English speakers, that’s: “hear the answers”
May 18, 2008 at 6:58 pm
The point at which I stopped reading:
President Bush is a good man….
May 19, 2008 at 4:12 am
“A religion that permits – indeed requires – the murder of gays and women who go against the principles of a barbaric code is not a religion and it is time we all deal with this “elephant in the room.””
Has this guy even read the Old Testament?
May 19, 2008 at 8:21 am
Imho, many of the people disillusioned with the ICORP in Iraq are what I call ‘technical dissenters.’ Like both Hillary and Obama (and Bombin’ Johnnie, too), they are not so much opposed to the intervention in Iraq as the outcome of it, which they now see as disastrous, but only because the ‘tactics,’ have been mis-handled and we seem to be ‘losing.’ None of ‘em would be opposed now had things played out like the delusional morons thought it should have…
May 19, 2008 at 8:22 am
Oh, by the way, since there is a tinge of religiousity evident here, consider: Knowledge get’s you fed; faith gets you eaten…
May 19, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Just BTW, Sully’s Dear Reader can’t construct an English sentence. “The struggle we face is as much between A and B” should be followed by “as it is between C and D.” So, Dear Reader, the suspense is killing me: what is the struggle as much between? Skins and shirts? Great taste and less filling? Peanut butter and chocolate?