Comments on: Symbolistry

By: cPj

cPj — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 14:15:27 +0000

Remember how entertaining it was to watch the voters Bush pandered to during election cycles and then screwed sideways with his economic plans cheer him on and construct byzantine arguments explaining how each time he spat in their faces it was actually out of love and loyalty? Remember how achingly, howlingly hilarious that was? Remember the sheer joy of watching the very voters the GOP sold out time and time again keep coming back and licking Herr President’s boots over and over?

Here’s a mirror, guys.

Oh, and BlackJesus wants to be able to look down and see himself in those goddamned boots when you’re done with them.

Rock ‘n roll.

Deal with it.

By: AHG

AHG — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 05:12:37 +0000

“You mean like Rev. Lowery?

Oh, my bad. OBAMA SUCKS AND HATES TEH GAYZ AND I MIGHT AS WELL HAVE VOTED FOR MCCAIN PALIN. Slap in the face!”

Uh, no. Let’s review: civil rights icon, good choice; dumb fatty who thinks gay=pedophile, poor choice.

Just a reminder, John – it’s ok to disagree with the guy in charge, even if you generally like him. That’s what makes lefty blogs interesting and righty blogs teh suck.

Like I said, totally unnecessary choice. A president who wants to be seen as a champion of gay rights (as Obama apparently does) needs to take concrete steps to that end. That means rewarding people who advance gay rights and telling bigots to fuck off. What this choice seems to indicate (though it’s too early to tell) is that gay rights aren’t actually his priority – he’d rather be friendly with a bigot. In cold political terms that could be excused if it were necessary for getting stuff done, but I don’t buy that in this case – it just legitimizes Warren without getting our side a damn thing. And for nytonc, demonizing is calling a consensual adult sexual choice equivalent to child rape – calling that statement idiotic bigotry is just the truth.

By: nytonc72

nytonc72 — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 04:02:32 +0000

What if he’s doing something else? Like getting all of these people together, some who agree with him and some who don’t, and saying you can be part of this new thing we are doing. But you are going to have to buy into respecting everyone, just because they’re fellow Americans, not just the people who agree with you. Because this administration has to serve EVERYBODY.
Maybe he thinks that if he can get people talking to each other respectfully, they will have to change their intolerant minds, little by little. Or at least begin to understand that in our society religion has to take a backseat to equal rights.
If you look back at his speech on race, he was acknowledging people’s humanity and different experiences without writing them off as rascists even though they made racist statements in certain contexts. It sounded like he had to learn to do this because some of these people were members of his own family that he loved for their good qualities. It’s not that big a step from not demonizing your relatives to not demonizing your fellow citizens.

By: norbizness

norbizness — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 01:34:52 +0000

Arguments about strategic bloc-splitting aside, I’m still going with my initial reaction to the announcement: “Him?! Are you fucking kidding?”

By: John Cole

John Cole — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:10:42 +0000

Finding a pastor on the right side of this and giving them a high profile spot wouldn’t have been very fucking hard

You mean like Rev. Lowery? Oh, my bad. OBAMA SUCKS AND HATES TEH GAYZ AND I MIGHT AS WELL HAVE VOTED FOR MCCAIN PALIN. Slap in the face! Sorry, I am new to this circular fir=ing squad shit.

By: Aloysius

Aloysius — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 19:46:31 +0000

Look, the only way in the long run to reduce the power and influence of people like Warren and of his movement is through PR. Warren and his followers are fools and bigots. Their belief system, although popular and widespread, is fundamentally not acceptable in a pluralistic secular nation. If powerful and respected public figures like Obama go around treating Warren like he’s reasonable and good, then great masses of people will go on thinking he’s reasonable and good and that his belief system isn’t automatically toxic and loathsome. And so assholes like him will get to keep raping our society for that much longer.

The only reliable way to combat bigotry in the public sphere is through shame and ostracism. People like Warren must be marginalised and rendered socially radioactive, like the KKK. Yes, this will drive the believers deeper into their cocoons, but they are not on our side and never will be. They’re crazy. When they end up agreeing with us it’s mostly by accident. They have terrible judgment and terrible priorities.

Reaching out to Warren might make sense in terms of short-term politics. It makes no sense at all when you take a longer view.

By: uncle noel

uncle noel — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 18:41:45 +0000

Warren reminds me of Jerry Falwell: not so much two-faced as a complete fraud. Honoring him really is a disgrace, whatever else may transpire. The one thing that would make this acceptable is if Obama has made a deal… with a R senator to stab the GOP in the back when they vote for cloture on an important bill. If that happens, I’ll need to apologize for the email I sent him c/o David Plouffe.

By: Badger3k

Badger3k — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 18:01:32 +0000

I read Cole’s post, and disagree 100%.. I’ve seen, and known, scam artists, and know how much of a face they can put on to convince people they are their friends. From everything I’ve seen and read and know of Warren, he is that type. It is possible that he suffers from so much cognitive dissonance that he is completely and honestly two-faced, but I don’t see it. Professor Cole fell for a charismatic (I actually said that?!) scum-sucking pig-porking slimy bottom-feeding excuse for a human being.

Simple, really. Happens all the time.

By: Phoenix Woman

Phoenix Woman — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 16:36:58 +0000

Juan Cole points out that Rick Warren actually really is among the better evangelicals when it comes to understanding Islam and world poverty issues — and that Melissa Etheridge is reaching out to Warren (a move I’m afraid will kill her career):

http://www.juancole.com/2008/12/rick-warren-i-love-muslims-i-happen-to.html

By: AHG

AHG — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 15:29:43 +0000

This isn’t a symbolic victory for the right, it’s an actual fuck you to teh gays and their allies.

In case you hadn’t noticed, entire churches are splitting over the gay rights fight and there are some extremely corageous folks standing up to their church hierarchies in defense of basic human rights. Finding a pastor on the right side of this and giving them a high profile spot wouldn’t have been very fucking hard, but it would have taken actual nads (read: telling conservatives, not liberals, to fuck off) and an actual commitment to advancing gay rights. Sadly, neither is present in the Obama camp. This administration is going to bite ass.