Oh, what the hell. I’ll go there.
Glenn Greenwald, after reeling in the traditional red herrings, gets to the point:
Ultimately, what is most notable about the “debate” in the U.S. over Israel-Gaza is that virtually all of it occurs from the perspective of Israeli interests but almost none of it is conducted from the perspective of American interests. There is endless debate over whether Israel’s security is enhanced or undermined by the attack on Gaza and whether the 40-year-old Israeli occupation, expanding West Bank settlements and recent devastating blockade or Hamas militancy and attacks on Israeli civilians bear more of the blame. American opinion-making elites march forward to opine on the historical rights and wrongs of the endless Israeli-Palestinian territorial conflict with such fervor and fixation that it’s often easy to forget that the U.S. is not actually a direct party to this dispute. [...]
Even for those Americans who, for whatever their reasons, want endlessly to fixate on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, who care deeply and passionately about whether the Israelis or the Palestinians control this or that West Bank hill or village and want to spend the rest of their days arguing about who did what to whom in 1948 and 1967, what possible interests do Americans generally have in any of that, sufficient to involve ourselves so directly and vigorously on one side, and thereby subject ourselves to the significant costs — financial, reputational, diplomatic and security — from doing so?
It’s one thing to argue that Israel is being both wise and just by bombing the densely populated Gaza Strip. It’s another thing entirely to argue that the U.S. should use all of its resources to support Israel as it does so. Those are two entirely separate questions. Arguments insisting that the Gaza attack is good and right for Israel don’t mean that they are good and right for the U.S. Yet unstinting, unquestioning American support for whatever Israel does is just tacitly assumed in most of these discussions. The core assumption is that if it can be established that this is the right thing for Israel to do, then it must be the right thing for the U.S. to support it. The notion that the two countries may have separate interests — that this may be good for Israel to do but not for the U.S. to support — is the one issue that, above all else, may never be examined.
Greenwald’s right, you know. Actually, it’s worse than that, and bigger. Foreign policy decisions made during the Cold War or WWII – and let’s leave the historians to argue the merit of those decisions in the context in which they were made – are never reëvaluated. Defense priorities justified by the possibility of repelling a Soviet invasion of Western Europe far outlast the threat, and even the Soviet Union. Other priorities can be appended, but the foundational assumptions, materially and rhetorically, haven’t changed much in 65 years. History passes us by.
This isn’t quite true – Reagan happily shifted the default American position away from Nixon/Kissinger/Greenwald realpolitik towards his own Cold War Manichaeism, and WPE shifted it even further own Nazis => Soviets => “Terror” Conservation of Evil transference. (Both, significantly, increased the defense budget to combat threats which bore less and less resemblence to the 40′s-50′s Nazi/Soviet model.) That these were both became “popular” at the time, I think, serves as a useful counter to both Greenwald’s and Cohen’s attempts to quantify the normalized public opiniovector on this issue: the public doesn’t make policy, because the public is a fool. Lacking any personal interest, most people will idly object to people getting bombed; a minority who has an partisan interest in foreign race wars certainly exert more influence than those who don’t particularly care; these people also tend to be very, very, very crazy. We elect leaders to lead, not to follow, and effective leadership (and/or PR) can draw the public to your position. And even if this fails to move the public, there is always the under-appreciated last resort of material policy success. Luck is a factor here, but a realistic appraisal of the present situation and a calculated response plays a significant role.
Finally, it’s worth observing that, over 6 decades of various strategies backed by great expendatures of political and actual capital from several international actors, nothing fundamental has been resolved. You can distract the players with talks, or pay them to abstain from overt violence, but there appears to at least one critical vacuum of leadership or public willingness to resolve the issue, and that’s just not something you can provide from the outside. Hope to be proven wrong, nothing lasts forever, trying is better than giving up, etc., but it’s hard to find much encouragement for the idea that the US and the international community can do much besides manage the situation into a marginally more stable state. Wars based on blood and land and Gods and mythical histories can go on. Paying people to do counterproductive things can’t help.
January 3, 2009 at 5:55 pm
The salient reason for the existence of politics is homo sapiens’ inability to mind its own business and its furious interest in the business of others.
This, more than anything, tells why notions of isolationism are laughed down from all sides as childish lunacy or, at best, wishful thinking.
But China strides over two millennia as a constant empire. It did this not through isolationism, per se, although went through periods where indeed it did close its doors.
It did it through keeping separate in its mind what its interests were from those of others. Thus, when it decides to mind the business of others (like invading/reclaiming/whatever Tibet), it does a thorough job of it.
It knows it is an empire and acts accordingly. Its entire ideology is that of empire. Its brief flirtation with communism was more pragmatic than ideal, and served mostly to fill the vacuum left from its previous century of decline, and invasion by others. Or to put it another way, communism served as an artificial shell to protect it while it hardened after its recent moulting.
America suffers from rampant idealism. G.K.Chesterton said it well (paraphrase alert):
“The average American is alright; it is the ideal American who is wrong/dangerous/love child of Bill O’Reilly and Sarah Palin.”
America thinks its business is everyone’s business. This makes it vulnerable, I suspect, to manipulation by outsiders. Indeed, the only things our leaders seem to agree on are:
Oil Is Good
So Are Arms/Arms Sales
Big Banks Are Our Friends
I know it’s hysterically Pollyannaish of me to say, not to mention Kate What’s-Her-Name interpretive dance spastic, but I really believe that Obama will be one of those rare American presidents who clearly pursues American interests. That he will perceive these interests as national rather than imperial only emphasizes that he understands what we are: a nation not an empire.
Invasion is for transnational corporations and true empires, not for nations who want to thrive and prosper. Japan learned this, most of the European nations have learned this, most of South America seems to have learned it.
America is still too busy teaching other polities how to be nations, it seems, to learn how to be one itself?
January 3, 2009 at 6:02 pm
P.S. I notice that Ken seems to be staring of late, and with intense interest, at Spider-Tigger’s crack.
January 3, 2009 at 6:47 pm
Impressive use of the dieresis/umlaut, Editors.
January 3, 2009 at 7:02 pm
When you give this speech it should be done in a wig, white make-up, a beauty mark, and a frilly man-fit from just before the dumby small d democrats elected Barack Hussein Obama to be President with his policy option selections in full view. Sure it took three shot to elect the Gore-Kerry-Obama-Edwards-Hillary-Dodd-Biden-Kucinich-Gravel-Carol Mosley Braun platform, but the people did it. Some might say Gore or Kerry “did it” too.
The people sure as fuck make policy. I don’t like polls either, but there’s no doubt they count. Clinton wasn’t impeached because the people didn’t want it. Bush was given a retard leash after 9/11, by the people, (stupidly, bad people!). The Civil Right movement was popular opinion roiling like water under a properly salted and covered pasta pot, if you don’t release the pressure, it boils over. Public policy is that pressure that prevents my nephew from working at the Bobbin Factory, (I disagree with this).
Sure the official “presses the button” but money spent by people goes to the lobbyist who write’s Chris Dodd’s Banking Bills.
Maybe the people are affecting or effecting policy, but I think it’s more like a can being crushed inward due to vacuum. There is a physics of public sentiment, and a hierarchy. For example, 2 million people in Brooklyn decide what’s cool for me every year, (thanks ironic trucker hat, The Killers, The Strokes, The Hold Steady and The Shut The Fuck Ups.) I think the press has the same effect as a vocoder on Lil John, it “produces” and amplify, adds crazy ass effect to the actual real opinion of people that then gets, often wrongly, filtered by Congress and the effete whimpering purse men who press the buttons.
Public opinion is perhaps wrongly gauged and disseminated, but there is no doubt, to me, that popular sentiment and plus 60%-pop. sentiments, sooner or later become law. Single Payer Health Care any day now. I pray to Odin that Obama can execute this beast.
January 3, 2009 at 7:07 pm
Israel has smartly cobbled together the Evangelical caucus which is a pivot for the GOP with The Jewish Caucus which is a pivot for the Democrats. The Orthodox Jews get fought over. They have PAC money. Palestine has no significant caucus and no PAC money. That’s all.
January 3, 2009 at 8:13 pm
I think this is how Jefferson and Adams wrote their first Yacht Rock Hit.
January 3, 2009 at 8:59 pm
What’s the use of starting an Israel thread if you’re not at least running per-impression ads on the site?
January 4, 2009 at 12:01 am
Leadership is endogenous.
http://unpan1.un.org/intradoc/groups/public/documents/NISPAcee/UNPAN018469.pdf
January 4, 2009 at 9:00 am
“For example, 2 million people in Brooklyn decide what’s cool for me every year, (thanks ironic trucker hat, The Killers, The Strokes, The Hold Steady and The Shut The Fuck Ups.)”
In Spokane, we all must pass in cakewalk review before a bum named Marty and get thumbs up or down.
What is this Brooklynn of which you speak? Is it a website?
January 4, 2009 at 9:43 am
Who’s WPE?
January 4, 2009 at 10:47 am
Bush was given a retard leash after 9/11, by the people
Too bad nobody told him that. Or Dick. Or Donald. Or Karl.
George did everything he wanted to do. The only reason we didn’t go into Iran was because they didn’t have the troops – if Iraq had worked as these retards thought, Iran and Syria would have been invaded as well.
The people didn’t put a retard leash on George. Military reality did.
January 4, 2009 at 1:03 pm
Dr. D. Dawg Larison is also “going there”:
January 4, 2009 at 1:10 pm
Worst.President.Ever.
“George did everything he wanted to do. The only reason we didn’t go into Iran was because they didn’t have the troops – if Iraq had worked as these retards thought, Iran and Syria would have been invaded as well. The people didn’t put a retard leash on George. Military reality did.”
Sometimes, the people’s will and material reality coincide? If Double-Ought’d had the success he wanted in Iraq, and thus the troops, he would’ve had the people’s will also.
Anyway, retard leash obviously doesn’t mean an abrogation of executive powers nor altering of executive intent. It just means that after a certain point, new ideas by Dubya were DOA, with or without the troops to do so.
The admin has been in retreat or stonewall fortress seclusion since Katrina, and especially since ’06. Only where their plans have succeeded have their failures been successful ;) For example, they managed to fuck the economy so badly that Congress wrote them a mostly carte blanche checque for $700 billion upfront and probably close to $2 trill in toto.
(‘to $2 trill in toto’: name of my semi-geriatric emopunk band
Right now, the Bush retainers are scrambling to retread enough credence in their boss’s remaining streed-cred so he’ll have *some* kind of lecture circuit draw, thus empowering them to likewise work the second and third tiers of oratory hell.
January 4, 2009 at 5:33 pm
The people did want Bush to go into Afghanistan and turn it into a parking lot on 9/12. That’s all I’m saying. They turned a blind eye towards impeachment, due to a delicious miasma of ignorance and a real desire to torture people who they perceived to have wronged them. An international Ned Beatty. This is now an offical term.
Funny story, “Retard Leash” almost never happened because I never meant to suggest that there is an invisible leash Americans place on the POTUS called the retards leash controlled via chi or something, it’s not important. I meant to say “a retarded leash”, meaning the invisible POTUS retard leash was broken because the will of the people was unknown because only cranks write their Member and they had yet to use the series of tubes unlike a dump truck…The Bible is really mostly a bunch of begats anyway.
January 5, 2009 at 1:54 pm
YitzakhH-hRabin oi-yoi yoi. {snap, clap} YitzakhH rRRabin oi yoi yoi! {Snap, clap} MenacHHim Begin oi yoi yoi. {snap clap} MenachHim Begin, oi-yoi-yoi!
Oi Weh!
NetanyaHHu – oi-yoi yoi! {snap clap}
Oi Weh!
NetanyahHu – oi-yoi yoi!
Hava-nagila. Weh is’m'Hha!
January 9, 2009 at 4:41 pm
Thank you for going there. May your post become viral.