For anyone wondering what an Afghan’s life is worth, here’s mention of the going rate in terms of airstrike authorizations:
The law is certainly vague, and military commanders are left an awful lot of leeway. But consider how it works in Afghanistan. In a grisly calculus known as the “collateral damage estimate,” U.S. military commanders and lawyers often work together in advance of a military strike, using very specific, Pentagon-imposed protocols to determine whether the good that will come of it outweighs the cost.
We don’t know much about how it works, but in 2007, Marc Garlasco, the Pentagon’s former chief of high-value targeting, offered a glimpse when he told Salon magazine that in 2003, “the magic number was 30.” That meant that if an attack was anticipated to kill more than 30 civilians, it needed the explicit approval of then-Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld or President George W. Bush. If the expected civilian death toll was less than 30, the strike could be OKd by the legal and military commanders on the ground.
Well, isn’t it great that we’re burning through trillions of dollars to “liberate” the Afghan people - keeping them safe from various malefactors? Also, dead – within acceptable ratios of course.
As for the morality of the situation, I believe it goes something like this:
1. A terrorist deliberately targeting civilians is pure evil – regardless of how many civilians are killed.
2. The US dropping a bomb on an Afghan village that will result in up to 30 innocent civilian deaths is an act of pure moral goodness.
3. If more than 30 will die, then it requires Bush or Rumsfeld’s signature for the act to be redeemed.
They hate us for our freedom.
July 27, 2009 at 6:09 pm
The magic number is 30? Jesus, it sounds like statistics class. For small samples, you’re on your own, men!
July 28, 2009 at 4:37 am
Thank goodness the evil Bush and his evil cronies are gone and Our Saviour the God-Emperor Obama has stopped this horrible practice! Thanks to our progressive hope for change the people of Afghan have half a loaf which is better than nothing and besides that we’re gradually and realistically changing the face of politics as we know it. With our hope!
July 28, 2009 at 7:22 am
Actually, no.
The Ultimate Supreme God Emperor’s Afghan policy is terrible, and plenty of “pwogs” have pointed it out.
You’re really kind of boring. You act like there weren’t plenty of blogs (this one most definitely included) and other observers that realized that Obama was a centrist incrementalist who would offer an improvement over Bush that would fall very short in myriad ways.
But Obama was better than the ideal candidate that didn’t exist. That was pretty much the tenor of support here and in many other venues. And you know what: it’s true! He’s been better than Bush but far from ideal.
So, no again: No God Emperor deification. No unrealistic expectations. No blind support. And, yes, a willingness to criticize his Afghan policy. Amongst others.
If that one little note is all your mind can muster, go play it elsewhere where you’d at least have a point.
July 28, 2009 at 7:45 am
don’t think of it as killing them, think of it as putting them beyond the reach of tyranny.
July 28, 2009 at 7:48 am
But, but . . . it’s the LIBERALS who are all moral relativism.
Also.
There’s no reason why people shouldn’t love the United States after we’ve killed the wife/child/brother/parent.
July 28, 2009 at 7:49 am
1. A terrorist deliberately targeting civilians is pure evil – regardless of how many civilians are killed.
2. The US dropping a bomb on an Afghan village that will result in up to 30 innocent civilian deaths is an act of pure moral goodness.
ATR just did a post about this question.
July 28, 2009 at 8:17 am
Shorter curv3ball:
There are only two parties in the US and MINE is the less toxic of the two so shut up you dirty fucking hippy! My party works hard to rig ballot laws every four years and you’re trying to spoil everything with your purity pure pure pure purism because WE’RE really realistic realisicists and and and uhuhuh, ANYBODY BUT BUSH! ANYBODY BUT BUSH! HOPE FOR CHANGE!!!
July 28, 2009 at 8:30 am
Like this is something new? I remember Mom telling me in the late ’60s: “I’ve never voted FOR; I’ve always voted AGAINST”. I would also point you to the late-60s Fugs lyric to Wide Wide River (of shit): “Who designed a system — supposedly democratic — wherein you always wind up voting for the lesser of two evils? I mean, was George Washington the lesser of two evils? Sometimes I wonder…”
What is your solution? What are you actually doing, today, to change the evil 2-party system — other than ranting on this site?
July 28, 2009 at 9:15 am
Change? Why in the world would I want to change our glorious and wise “two party” system? Why, even now God-Emperor Obama’s gradual incremental realistic hope for change has worked so many lesser-evil wonders in our country, how in the world could I possibly contemplate even imagining the slightest notion of change?
Why, the example above is more than enough to demonstrate why pwoggies are so much more moral than freepers! I mean, sure, God-Emperor Obama has increased the number of predator drone strikes since assuming the throne, but the resulting increase in civilian death is okay because he’s got a secret progressive plan!
No doubt the people of Afghanistan appreciate our overlord’s incremental changes. An abrupt stop in the massacre of their children would only disorient the poor things. How could good progressive democrats live with something like that?
So, change? Thanks, but no thanks! I’ll take ObamaChange instead. It’s Incrementalicious!
July 28, 2009 at 9:43 am
Nothing useful. Just as I expected.
July 28, 2009 at 11:38 am
Plz explain @ length w/links & foot notes. Kthnxbye!
July 28, 2009 at 12:12 pm
Yeah, he has nothing to actually suggest.
But he is funny!!!
July 28, 2009 at 2:09 pm
At least he hasn’t brought up Ralph Nader.
July 28, 2009 at 2:23 pm
BTW, have you noticed how Ralph Nader was right and all you condescending do-nothing lesser-evil sucking pwoggie bloggie Obots were wrong?
July 28, 2009 at 4:07 pm
Ha! I knew it. It’s a Naderoid!
July 28, 2009 at 4:25 pm
I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but there have been an awful lot of them floating around on smaller progressive blogs lately. I think the last six months or so must have gotten them really unhinged.
Cue the compulsive response, in 3…2…1…
July 29, 2009 at 4:41 am
Blastoff!
July 28, 2009 at 8:50 am
Theeds, you look funny slumming your own blog in a teabag suit. Hey… can see we see the little angel wings on your testicles?
Or are we supposed to believe that Adam Smithee is as real and dumb and prone to blowing up his artificial penis with hot air in public displays as the current manifestations suggest?
I’d rather believe it was a Spideyman in a Tigger suit, mahseff.
July 28, 2009 at 9:13 am
No, jackass, I didn’t tell you to shut up about Obama’s bad policies. Heck, I write about them all the time (in other venues and this one). So why would I tell you to shut up while I spout off about them?
What I suggested is that you drop the self righteous preening schtick whereby you act like everyone that voted for Obama did so with starbursts in their eyes and think he’s an infallible God. And beyond reproach. And that his slogan will change the world. Which is what you wrote.
Grow. Up.
Some people held their nose and voted for Obama. Those people write and comment on the same blog where you did your little dance.
And for the record: the Democratic party is not “my party.” I support independents (Bernie Sanders when I lived in Vermont) when they are viable. When not, I often pick the lesser of two evils because it affects peoples’ lives. Sadly, even incrementally different pols can determine the level of funding for poverty alleviating programs that decide whether or not poor children/seniors/others get things like life-saving medicine. See, ie, California and Arnold.
Your purity is great – no really, it looks dashing on you. But what’s your actual suggestion? Other than how amazingly awesome you are compared to everyone else!!ONE!!!
Do you have one?
July 28, 2009 at 9:23 am
Well of course I know you’re really a grown up adult really realistic incrementalist who is really real – and not really some spineless lesser-evil pwoggie bloggie demotard who writes amusingly about freeper wingnuts. Everyone knows that. Really.
July 28, 2009 at 9:33 am
And what, exactly, are you?
Seriously?
What are your suggestions? You’ve been asked several times, and your only response was to completely ignore the question and once again assail the status quo as if it were what people preferred.
What. Do. You. Suggest?
What should people do when faced with the choice of Bush and Obama? Feingold and his challenger? Bernie Sanders’ and his?
Funny, you bitch about the supposed importance that “pwogs” place on Obama’s hollow “hope/change” slogans, but all you’re offering are your own slogans.
Only, they’re cooler. More jaded. So world weary and hip. Man, it must feel great to be you.
July 28, 2009 at 10:09 am
What. Do. You. Suggest?
A. Twisted. Sister. Pin? On. your. Uniform? Who are you? What are you? Where do you live? WHAT. DO. YOU. WANNA. DO. WITH. YOUR. LIFE??????
July 28, 2009 at 10:14 am
Ah, good. That should work. Thanks.
July 28, 2009 at 11:18 am
You’re welcome. :-)
July 28, 2009 at 3:20 pm
Can’t we set AlanSmithee up on a blind date with Lambert Strether so they could commiserate about how much holier-than-thou they are than the average “Obamamaniac”? I think they’d make a great couple and perhaps their lives would finally have some meaning thus allowing them to stop bothering the rest of us so much.
July 28, 2009 at 3:32 pm
Shorter Bob:
You kids get off curv3ball’s lawn!
July 28, 2009 at 3:48 pm
Shorter AlanSmithee: “I know you are but what am I?”
July 29, 2009 at 4:42 am
Tell us another story, granpa.
July 28, 2009 at 2:37 pm
Now you went and did it PT. This guy is like herpes, only annoying.
July 28, 2009 at 2:49 pm
You’re right. I think you should ban him.
July 28, 2009 at 4:19 pm
Seconded
July 28, 2009 at 4:26 pm
Maybe if you didn’t smear lipstick all over your face and pull the pig tails mommy just made for you, you could settle down and take your nap. Do you want juice?
July 29, 2009 at 4:44 am
And they say there’s no difference between freepers and pwoggies…
July 29, 2009 at 11:21 am
I still think we should ban him.
July 28, 2009 at 8:58 am
Let’s assume for a minute that A Smithee represents a real and sincere human being. (pause for a moment of pity)
I have no idea what it hopes to accomplish by pointing out that Obama isn;t really Jesus Christ returned to set men free and pass out skyhooks and robes.
The candidate you elected into office isn’t perfect! So there!
(really bad French accent barely concealing a noxious coastal Carolina accent): Thar! I peynt zee moustache on his face!
July 28, 2009 at 9:18 am
Why, the example above is more than enough to demonstrate why pwoggies are so much more moral than freepers! I mean, sure, God-Emperor Obama has increased the number of predator drone strikes since assuming the throne, but the resulting increase in civilian death is okay because he’s got a secret progressive plan!
But who actually argued this?
Stop humping strawmen and engage what people here are actually writing.
I wrote that Obama’s Afghan policies are terrible so…what’s your point exacttly?
July 28, 2009 at 9:34 am
Who’s arguing? Why, just look at the number of times you mention Our President and Saviour in the post! How could anyone possibly miss that?
July 28, 2009 at 9:41 am
But the article cited mentioned Bush and Rumsfeld’s calculus. So I quoted that. But either way, the post condemns airstrikes in Afghanistna and the supposed moral superiority attached to them. It references the going rate for Afghan lives in the present tense, not past.
So that, obviously, applies to Obama as well. As I’ve written countless times on this and other sites: Obama’s Afghan policies are terrible. Enormous mistake.
I don’t mention that in every single post, but isn’t it obvious here? If airstrikes are morally reprehensible, they are regardless of who it is that is ordering them.
And here’s a neat suggestion: If it’s unclear and you are uncertain, ask. Ask.
Or make your point without being an insufferable douchebag who ends up mincing so much straw to make himself feel better.
Try that. Or not.
July 28, 2009 at 11:17 am
Shorter curv3ball:
Butbutbut the article was written in…in…English! Yeah! So, it must apply to Obama as well! Sure it does! Prove it doesn’t!
Dirty fucking hippy!
July 28, 2009 at 12:09 pm
Jesus you’re tedious.
You’re like a six year old who just learned that if they make up arguments for other people, it’s easier to win them.
Nya, nya, nya!!!
Good for you. You can play make believe and score points. Just like my precocious niece.
What you can’t do is actually enunciate a cogent argument based on anything but straw.
Oh, and your razor wit. Straw and teh funny. Awesome.
July 28, 2009 at 12:38 pm
Shorter curv3ball:
“You damn kids! Get off my lawn!”
July 28, 2009 at 9:52 am
Ah, I should have visited Alan’s site before addressing him. Now I understand.
Colossal dick.
July 28, 2009 at 9:57 am
Thanks for putting to rest the rumor that you pwoggies have a better sense of humor than your freeper cousins. Hope for (Incremental) Change!
July 28, 2009 at 10:20 am
Dude, I laugh at myself every day.
You’re not funny.
July 28, 2009 at 10:47 am
Let me try to explain. You seem to be mistaking your mocking insults for supreme wit. Humor is subjective, and I can’t say at what point mocking insults become funny, but no one is mistaking you for Jon Stewart. Have you even wondered why the majority of your blog posts have 0 comments? I see that Al Schumann and Ms Xeno think you’re great. Glad you have 2 fans. When you use terms like “pwoggie,” I imagine the tone in which an older brother taunts little brother: “Are you gonna cwy now, wittle baby? Huh? You gonna cwy?” It’s like your “wit” is stalled at 7th-grade level.
Maybe if you farted more, you’d be funnier.
July 28, 2009 at 10:52 am
Maybe if you farted more, you’d be funnier
I’m confident in that supposition.
July 28, 2009 at 11:14 am
Q: How many pwoggies does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: That’s not funny!
July 28, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Come up with an actual funny line to that, and I’ll laugh. Like this one we techs use at work:
Q: how many engineers does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: one to hold the bulb while the world revolves around him.
July 28, 2009 at 2:22 pm
Clearly AlanSmithee was banned from Daily Kos at some point, and now he’s emotionally scarred.
July 28, 2009 at 3:27 pm
If that’s your best, your best won’t do.
July 28, 2009 at 3:45 pm
An actual quote from Alan Smithee’s own site “I mean, this shit is comedy gold! There are so many laugh lines and punch lines and tan lines in just these three articles…fuck, I’d hardly know where to start. There’s no challenge here, no struggle, it’s just too damn easy to make fun of the pwoggie blogs today.”
He just couldn’t be bothered to say anything funny. But elsewhere on his site we are treated to gold, comedy gold, I tell you. How funny? Consider:
“The Booman Tribune” is called “Pwogman’s Epistle To The Gulliblites”
The writers at “OpenLeft” are “the muchkins at OBot Left”
“Shakesville” is “Shake-A-Puddin’”
Digbys “Hulabalo” is “Diggly Wiggly”
Oh, Christ, I’m laughing so hard my sides ache. Wow, that’s some funny stuff there. Can’t believe you aren’t getting paid for these gems. I mean, to encounter name-calling that sophisticated one normally must travel to a pre-school playground, but we get it delivered to us. Thank you AlanSmithee whoever you are.
July 29, 2009 at 4:45 am
Maybe you should go into greater detail and provide a few footnotes and links this time. Kthnxbye.
July 28, 2009 at 10:40 am
That meant that if an attack was anticipated to kill more than 30 civilians, it needed the explicit approval of then-Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld or President George W. Bush.
I’d have thought this was the other way around – Rummy and Bush would automatically approve of anything with lots of blood.
Must have been purely for the optics of the thing, like that stupid brush ranch.
July 28, 2009 at 1:33 pm
Ya know, you get what you deserve when you feed the troll.
Apologies.
July 28, 2009 at 1:46 pm
I forgive you.
July 28, 2009 at 1:37 pm
That’s all been fixed now, I don’t see what you are complaining about. We read the Miranda rights to people who we take prisoner (funny how the number of prisoners we take has dropped so precipitously). If a bad guy runs into a civilian area we break off pursuit. Reduction of civilian casualties has become top priority for ground command these days. At least we’ve gotten away from that “Better them than us” attitude about who gets to die, eh? What a silly idea for a soldier to have ‘Better them than us…’ Now we we show the world how a pacifist runs a war… Talk about a winning strategery. Why are we still conducting operations there anyhow? I figured we’d be out of there by now… RIP McNamara! We have a whole new Brain Trust to run this one…
July 28, 2009 at 1:49 pm
I can’t help but think Adam’s his middle name and his first name is Zacahary.
July 28, 2009 at 1:50 pm
(ahem) Zachary
July 28, 2009 at 1:55 pm
Anyway, it’s a Big Tent.
Celibate de varsity!
July 28, 2009 at 2:58 pm
Alan, listen and learn:
July 28, 2009 at 3:29 pm
No thanks. I’m kinda busy.
<embed id="VideoPlayback" src="http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=-94688372859167974&hl=en&fs=true" style="width:400px;
July 28, 2009 at 4:30 pm
Ha ha, he fucked up the posting of his video. *sniff* ha ha *sniff* my head hurts I have tozzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
July 28, 2009 at 9:07 pm
grandlaff: o ye wonders of the internet! I knew not that le Pentomane had recorded! I am bliss…
For Dr. Smith:
A Musical Tribute
When le Pentomane was the human bubble machine for the band
I laughed so hard I busted a gut.
July 28, 2009 at 9:52 pm
The 1/2 hour British docu-drama on the life of Le Petomane is actually pretty entertaining.
Best line:
“If you sue me, sir, I shall never fart in Paris again!”
July 30, 2009 at 8:49 am
grandlaff: to quote Pigmeat Markham in his infamous Have You Seen My Wife routine:
“Boy, I LIKE you! You is a good friend and a member of mah lodge! drink my liquor and talk to me! Have you seen mah wife?”
Docus on the life of le Pentomane elevates sophomorism to grand new levels. Now if we could somehow graft them with vintage Hee-Haw episodes, we’d have the seminal surreality TV program.
Have your people call my people: they’re lonely.
July 28, 2009 at 4:49 pm
http://dirtygreeniehippie.blogspot.com/
Is my favorite nu-blog. It’s post-ironic Je ne sais que super sparkle fun horse pitchforking pitchfork preznit giv ME turkee but I spat in his pig fucking face funee!
July 29, 2009 at 9:00 am
Today is Geddy Lee’s 56th birthday.
Once that would have meant something here.
July 29, 2009 at 9:04 am
I understand and agree with some of AS’s arguments, but instead of talking about how we talk about politics, I prefer to write differently instead of writing about how others should write differently. Show don’t tell.
July 29, 2009 at 9:05 am
Some of his stuff is funny.
July 29, 2009 at 9:07 am
But not here, and it’s overdependent on using the same devices and moves. It’s like beating King Hippo in Punchout, (I’ve read, I’m too serious and interesting to actually know about console gaming.)
July 29, 2009 at 11:23 am
Don’t put yourself down! Why, I don’t find you serious or interesting at all.
July 29, 2009 at 11:47 am
Yeah, that’s what I’m saying, I’m not. Jesus Christ.
July 29, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Nope, Alan Smithee. But thanks for playing.
July 29, 2009 at 12:43 pm
Dish it out to who? Take it in what way?
Dude, you’ve been nothing but strawman attacks, non-sequitur ramblings and incoherent babbling. E. Nuff.
July 29, 2009 at 12:51 pm
Come on, AlanSmithee, double dog dare him.
He’ll never be able to face his pwoggie fwiends again if he refuses the double dog dare.
July 29, 2009 at 1:32 pm
This is reforming. Catch the reform.
July 29, 2009 at 6:53 pm
It sounds like someone can’t get over the fact that the lovable old curmudgeon and his wacky running mate didn’t get elected.
July 29, 2009 at 7:00 pm
It sounds like someone can’t get over the fact that the lovable old curmudgeon and his wacky running mate lost the election. Maybe he thinks they would have “changed the face of politics” with their mavericky ideas.
July 30, 2009 at 6:56 am
Sorry, my incredibly cute kitty was distracting me. He wanted to write the comment.
July 29, 2009 at 9:06 pm
This thread is awesome. However, it really needs some of this:
July 29, 2009 at 9:14 pm
The time stamp on this post is 27 hours off.
????????
July 30, 2009 at 8:35 am
What?
Nevermind.
July 30, 2009 at 7:43 am
Hey, just imagine how Mr. Smithee — if that is his real name — would have responded if you’d written a post defending Obama and his wonder-working Drone Surge. But that’s the way these people operate, as I’ve learned from years of Internets experience — they get much more upset with people on the left who aren’t Democratic Party shills than with people who are. Point out that Obama is the annoying centrist-liberal we always suspected, and that the other major party ran a slate of Insane/Membrane, and they start stamping their feet bigtime. And then they’ll call you funny names!
Now, it’s true that they’re smarter than everyone else, even when they turn out to have a soft spot for Ron Paul or a few kind words to say about Nader’s pitch to the far right. But why they even pretend to care about electoral politics, this I haven’t been able to figure out.
July 30, 2009 at 9:01 am
Aw, Alan just wants to be friends. He wants you to link him on his blogroll of faux ironic bwoggie fweynds. Most of all, he wants to be taken seriously, which is why he works so hard at being silly. That he’s staked out a position that begins and ends with false premises and evasion at all costs so long as we continue to pay attention, is only human.
If we dismiss AlanSmithee as a mere troll, the terrorists will have already won. But if me dismiss him as another bobohead wanting to join the Club of the Kool Kids, the terrorists will join him since they can’t beat him at his own game — no one can, onanism being a contest of one. (See, Alan? I set that up so you can spell Kool-Aid drinkers with a C instead of a K, making it all fresh and new. Try it: Cool-Aid Summer Skhool Cultur Campf. Use it and impwess your bwoggie fweynds.)
July 30, 2009 at 6:18 pm
The Alan Smith I know complains a lot.
Management doesn’t care for him or his thoughts, but at least there is merit in his dissing and shaking his head.
Can’t be the same guy.
His six “P” theorem; Piss Poor Planning Produces Putrid Products.
.
December 9, 2009 at 2:15 pm
[...] another interesting run-in with the number 30 and the topic of airstrikes. 30, it appears, is the new black: In a grisly calculus known as the “collateral damage estimate,” U.S. military commanders and [...]
July 29, 2009 at 5:05 am
The law of averages states “If AlanSmithee throws gibe after gibe at some point, at least by accident, one will have to be funny.”
Let me check…..nope, not a one. Jesus, you are pathetic. But keep trying. That whole “granpa” thing has potential….and pwoggies….bet you can pull a laugh out of that…and “you kids get off my lawn”, oh, never mind, that was the early cry for attention replaced by the mercifully shorter yet no funnier “granpa.”
Still, I’ll bet you can find a laugh line if you just hang in there long enough.
As far as meaningful political views, no, you’ll never have any.
July 29, 2009 at 11:25 am
Ur theeories intrig meh. I wud leik 2 subscrib 2 ur newsletter.
July 29, 2009 at 12:04 pm
Go away already.