This is insane.
That a so-called progressive activist would work this hard to persuade progressive legislators to join ranks with Republicans in defeating a health care reform bill that, while flawed, would still help tens of millions of Americans (and serve as a first step toward something better, as with Medicare and Social Security when they first passed in their flawed, incremental forms) is just beyond gob smacking.
In her Ahab’s quest to defeat the most progressive health care reform since Medicare, Jane Hamsher has been coordinating with Grover Norquist and the Tea Party movement. Shouldn’t rolling over and seeing such ugly, greedy, demented bedfellows make you think twice about the whole sordid menage a trois? Apparently not.
The bill is this close to passing. But we need every progressive Dem in the House to vote yes because the vile Stupak posse (who should all be primaried out of the Party) won’t vote yes unless poor women are denied access to abortions. We know they’re too fucking blinkered to understand how vital this bill is to so many Americans. But the progressive caucus has no excuse. Nor do progressive activists.
With those stakes, this is how Jane Hamsher is using her time, energy and voice? Really? Seriously?
How about this instead: If you really want a better bill (which is a mathematical impossibility at this point, unless you can find a GOP Senator to vote yes on a more progressive bill (maybe Inhofe?), while getting yes votes from Lieberman, Nelson, Landrieu, etc. – and good fucking luck with that), why not pass this first, then use all of your clout to fight like hell to improve it down the road? As the history of Social Security and Medicare have shown, improving ambitious progresssive legislation is easier than passing a perferct bill initially (there isn’t as much opposition from interest groups that have already lost the primary fight, and voters are more insistent on more and better of the same).
Guess what though Jane: You won’t have Grover Norquist or the Tea Party movement as allies in that fight. There’s a reason for that. Think about it.
I mean, is there any doubt that Jane Hamsher would have been fighting tooth and nail to convince Democrats to vote against Social Security and Medicare when they first passed because they each were inadequately progressive? Awesome.
March 17, 2010 at 7:42 am
I dunno, it’s sort of refreshing to come across a left-wing activist who sticks to their principles too much. I never thought that would be the problem.
March 17, 2010 at 7:53 am
Yeah, I would just prefer it to not result in shooting ourselves in the foot, face and torso.
You know, a less painful quixotic charge that doesn’t result in tens of millions of Americans being shit out of luck would be cool with me.
As I said: Stick to your principles AFTER this bill is passed. It shouldn’t be an either/or. Pass it, then fight like hell to improve it to cover even more Americans, and get a viable public option included.
As Dennis Kucninich decided today.
March 17, 2010 at 9:01 am
I was proud of him. To have held out would have made him politically irrelevant. He would have had to join JoMental Lieberman in the ‘little guys with cute crinkly eyes who don;t mean shit’ corner.
Rampant progressives, like ardent regressives, i.e., wingnuts, believe in standing their ground. This is why they get run over so often.
Cindy Sheenhan (sp) only made sense during her time of fame because she stood in opposition to an equally fanatical regressive regime.
Reagan rolls in his grave: “I only said that shit because t sounded cool. These clowns actually believe it?!?”
March 17, 2010 at 7:58 pm
Bullshit. We’re going to be stuck with a mandate to buy overpriced insurance and there won’t be any ‘fix’ that will benefit the ‘consumer’ in our lifetimes.
March 17, 2010 at 8:17 am
I would certainly never condone any deal making with Grover Norquist or any of his hard right reactionary widgets, no matter what the issue.
That said, I certainly hope you supporters are right about all this (passing the bill, making it better, etc.), I really do. Unfortunately, here’s how I imagine it will go down:
Whether or not the bill passes in whatever form it finally takes, for better or worse the parliamentary shenanigans will come back to bite the dems in the midterms (and to some extent in 2012 possibly as well). Doesn’t matter that the procedure has been used before, in this case its unsavory and the Dem leadership damn well knows it. If the bill passes, they’re gonna take a drubbing in November and the GOP will make overturning it in part or in whole their entire agenda leading up til 2012. Meanwhile, the promised benefits will be nowhere in sight,providing little ammunition for would be supporters, most of whom have little political clout anyway. If it doesn’t pass, they take a drubbing anyway for being both incompetent and untrustworthy.
Have to wonder, where was all this bravado last year at this time when it might have made a real difference to the actual legislation? Could it have been because the Dems were never serious about real reform in the first place? In all honesty, they couldn’t have bungled this whole affair any worse if they were actually Republicans in Dems clothing. Hmmm…
March 17, 2010 at 8:22 am
Procedural arguments are just about never important to voters. Voters aren’t going to be too concerned with that.
The Dems will take a hit in the midterms regardless. But if the bill doesn’t pass, it will be worse, as you say.
If the bill passes, they’re gonna take a drubbing in November and the GOP will make overturning it in part or in whole their entire agenda leading up til 2012.
Good luck with that. Overturning reform will not be popular.
And, again, if it DOESN’T pass, the GOP would make the Obama admin’s failure as its rallying cry. As you said.
Since they’ll do it either way, better to have a bill that helps Americans without insurance – and many with.
March 17, 2010 at 9:04 am
I agree with a lot of what you say, disaffect. It will get worse before it gets better. But nw it has a formally acknowledged reason to get better. Just like we stayed on in Iraq because we were officially invested, no matter how unlikely success seemed, same with HCR. Once passed, we are officially on the pot. Eventually, we’re gonna have to piss a better bill. My tombstone will read: insert pun here.
March 17, 2010 at 9:09 am
BTW, our insurance is going UP this year. From $20 copays to $50 copays, and other unpleasantries. And we get ours through a prosperous employer who really believes in taking care of his employees, but the insurance cos are determined to stick it that much further in until it breaks off.
This shitty HCR bill (and boy, is it ever shitty), will nonetheless stand in retrospect, in just a few short years, maybe months, as an act of brave bold foresighted care for the benighted unwashed masses.
Reptilicans who voted against it (all of them?) will be forced to kiss ass, mumble obfuscating excuses, and try — TRY — to steal Dem thunder for taking some positive step, however spastic and timid, toward health care provision for you and me.
March 17, 2010 at 8:00 am
Nader’d
March 17, 2010 at 8:31 am
Kucinich is right, Hamsher is right. Fiddling at the edges isn’t change, it’s facilitating the continuance of immoral governance. Compromise with the neocon GOP is rationalising criminality. Why not fix health care NOW? End the wars NOW. Repeal the patriot act NOW. Reform the financial sector NOW. Impeach and indite the criminals NOW. Act on the environment NOW. Reform the student loan finances NOW. Instigate a jobs program NOW. Act against foreclosures NOW.
Glenzilla is right, this administration is playing bait and switch. Demand change now.
March 17, 2010 at 8:40 am
Ok, Waldo, sure. And as long as I have the Pixie Dust and Magic Wand out, would you like a pony NOW as well?
March 18, 2010 at 1:13 pm
Obama 2012: Maybe In 2016
March 17, 2010 at 8:43 am
I’m all for doing it all NOW!!!!
How do we do it when the GOP will filibuster any bill NOW and we need to convince at least one GOP Senator to vote for a Dem bill NOW.
PS: Kucinich voted yes. If he’s right, Hamsher is wrong.
March 17, 2010 at 9:11 am
Like Stewie says in The Family Guy: I demand my diapers changed now! Demand all you want but be grateful if they at least hand you a towel and point you to the diaper aisle.
It’s better tha leaving you on your back kicking and screaming.
March 17, 2010 at 9:11 am
It’s Stewie, right? The Brit-accented toddler?
March 18, 2010 at 12:05 pm
beats the fuck outta me, K-L, I hate that damn show.
March 17, 2010 at 8:32 am
Kucinich endorsed the Obama HCR this morning, I’m sure she loved that.
Fucking retarded comes to mind. But I’ve had discussions with progressives who oppose voter turnout as helpful for implementing progressive legislation, etc.
March 17, 2010 at 8:36 am
I agree – let’s vote for a bill that screws over the people it is supposed to help, gives insurance companies complete control over pricing, hamstrings the governments ability to fix anything, and hope, really, hope, since it’s worked so well in the past, that Congress will actually reform it later? I guess that is good – it worked so well with Wall Street, after all. I guess Rahm is right, it’s better to get something passed so that you can claim victory, while standing on the bodies of those it should be protecting.
March 17, 2010 at 8:51 am
screws over the people it is supposed to help
Doesn’t do that. Unless you have facts for your assertion.
gives insurance companies complete control over pricing
Right, except it doesn’t actually do that. It controls ratios of collections to payouts on care. This is a very serious regulation. And there are other controls as well. PS: What controls are there currently in place? What’s that? None? I see. This bill would be worse then.
hamstrings the governments ability to fix anything
How?
and hope, really, hope, since it’s worked so well in the past, that Congress will actually reform it later? I guess that is good – it worked so well with Wall Street, after all.
Actually, it worked out QUITE well with Social Security and Medicare. And Wall Street? What sweeping reform of Wall Street was passed and later not fixed? Not following you here.
I guess Rahm is right, it’s better to get something passed so that you can claim victory, while standing on the bodies of those it should be protecting.
As opposed to shooting down the bill and…standing on the bodies that the status quo creates? The bill will help millions of Americans to buy insurance, and prevent insurance companies from kicking people off the rolls and/or denying for preexisting conditions.
That is less bodies. Equals better.
Besides, can you please point to the GOP Senator that would vote for a more progressive bill?
What’s that? You don’t know of any GOP Senator that would?
Well then, could you please explain how you get 60 votes in the Senate to overcome a filibuster without at least one GOP Senator?
Thanks in advance.
March 17, 2010 at 9:03 am
Adding this from Ezra Klein in response to your claim that this bill “gives insurance companies complete control over pricing”:
There are also new regulations on insurers forcing them to spend between 80 percent and 85 percent of every premium dollar on medical care, barring them from rejecting you or charging you higher premiums due to preexisting conditions, ensuring they can’t place any annual caps on insurance benefits, and more.
Doesn’t sound like complete control to me. And sounds a hell of a lot better than the status quo which is, ironically, complete control.
March 17, 2010 at 9:05 am
This is a no-brainer. You can build on the foundation, but you don’t ignore this window.
March 17, 2010 at 9:18 am
For the record, SSI was a lot more bold and sweeping in its introduced form than this HCR bill is — or at least so it appears. SSI was passed in a relative void. There was no retirement industry other than Wall Street, and, you know, 1929, while HCR is being passed in the context of a huge existing insurance industry that has not financially collapsed (but lets not rush things, eh? give it time, and I;m sure…).
Just sayin’.
March 17, 2010 at 9:14 am
Whereas before we mostly had to deal with reactionary zealots of the far right stripe, now we contend with reactionary zealots of a left wing stripe.
Both forms equally misinformed, and equally convinced they see the truth other’s don’t.
Makes you almost miss old Bush.
March 17, 2010 at 8:38 am
(1) More purely progressive than Kucinich.
(2) Endorsed by Norquist.
I’m pretty sure Captain Kirk could make a robot explode using that logic.
March 17, 2010 at 9:19 am
Kirk: I fucked your mother.
Robot: But I don;t have a mother.
Kirk: You didn’t until I fucked her and made her pregnant with you.
Robot. But…
“Kirk: She called me ‘daddy’.
Robot: (head asplode!)
March 17, 2010 at 8:55 am
POlitics are dominated by the insane. This is why moderacy makes one crazy: it places one in the center of a chorus of yowling bonkerbutts.
March 17, 2010 at 9:02 am
Enough with the disinformation,
http://thepragmaticprogressive.blogspot.com/2010/03/consumer-reports-endorses-obama-health.html
pass this link on. Consumer Reports has done a great job of explaining to consumers what to expect, they have also endorsed the obama hcr.
March 17, 2010 at 9:23 am
YOu know, it occurs to me that for all our criticism of Obama as a wully-wuss, I suspect a reading of the history surrounding LBJ pushing the Civil Rights act through a similarly disgusting Congressional body, wouold show similar ass-kissing and weak appearance on LBJ’s part. Also, Civil rights passed on a precedent of major activism by a charismatic black Gandhi and some previous legal precedents, yes?
March 17, 2010 at 9:32 am
I can hear those private arm-twisting sessions:
LBJ: Yes, Senator Bigot, I know, but — the niggars is already up in arms! And they’re winnin’!
SB: OK, but you’ll have to import some of them Viet Namese to make up tha diff’r'nce. Coolies ain’t as good as nigrahs, but…
LBJ: I know, I know. We lost the War for Southern Independence. Tragic but true. We must retrench for now and live to fight another day. Take courage, brave warrior.
March 18, 2010 at 6:52 am
“Yes, Senator Bigot, i guarantee your daughters will have 1st class staterooms on the space station USS White Purity, which is being constructed right now. The whole ‘moon’ business is just a smokescreen. All I need is your vote.”
March 17, 2010 at 9:48 am
Whatever the case, I guess it’s finally time to admit that all the hysterics leading up to this point is water under the bridge. Question now is, can the Dems get this done or not and can they live with the results either way? We’ll see soon enough apparently. I do agree that this will be a pivotal moment in our political future – most likely in more ways than we can even currently imagine – either way.
March 17, 2010 at 9:49 am
i dont know if any of u live in massachusetts but i do and if this bill is like the one we have then its bad for everyone. now we have the most expensive insurance in the country and u have to buy it whether or not u can afford it. my premiums went up 50% this year. and it has gone up every year.
and guess what else. i heard that the only reason that insurance here isnt even more expensive is b/c we are getting some kind of federal subsidy. so if we try to take this to the national level it wont work. were screwed.
if this is not like the mass plan then ignore what i wrote lol.
March 17, 2010 at 9:54 am
Yeah, the Mass plan is so terrible that it’s also popular. Go figger.
March 17, 2010 at 1:09 pm
Mass insurance has a 77% approval rate.
March 17, 2010 at 1:10 pm
harris, read:
http://thepragmaticprogressive.blogspot.com/2010/03/consumer-reports-endorses-obama-health.html
Consumer Reports will hold your hand through what to expect when HCR becomes law.
March 17, 2010 at 10:04 am
And she’s absolutely deluding herself if she thinks that the Republicans are going to reciprocate down the road. When she needs support or votes from across the aisle she’s not going to get it because the GOP does not work in good faith.
The fact that she doesn’t realize this indicates a certain stupidity on her part.
March 17, 2010 at 10:18 am
You mean Grover Norquist won’t support single payer? Or Cap and trade?
but yeah.
March 17, 2010 at 10:46 am
Hamsher’s not asking for any future reciprocation, she’s just looking to derail HCR, and accepting any assistance (and I mean any) she can get. That’s it, that’s all.
March 17, 2010 at 10:57 am
Yeah, and that’s bad enough. Again, when you’re in bed with Grover and the Teabaggers, you should probably question your judgment.
March 17, 2010 at 12:38 pm
And sanity.
March 17, 2010 at 12:46 pm
And whether you really enjoy sleeping in an airport bathroom.
March 17, 2010 at 11:12 am
You know what would be great? Health insurance that works like my car insurance.
March 17, 2010 at 1:07 pm
If you get sick they jack up your rates, like the car insurance companies do when you have an accident? Sounds awesome.
March 17, 2010 at 3:51 pm
Not even that. I give money every month to a private company so that I can drive a car that I already own on roads that I have already paid taxes on that are patrolled by public servants beholden to public funds. I never even get into accidents! I mean, I guess they could increase my rates, but they don’t because I never get into accidents! I do wonder what they do with all the money that I give them though…
March 17, 2010 at 11:18 am
BTW “progressive” is the dumbest resurrected political political term ever. Stop using it. It means nothing of substance.
March 17, 2010 at 11:39 am
Yeah, but if she is attacking members of the “progressive” caucus in Congress for not being “progressive” enough (her words) I kinda gotta use the parlance of the day.
March 17, 2010 at 1:05 pm
Progressive as opposed to reactionary, aka regressive. Progress is inevitable, a progressive is someone who wants to increase the rate of change, a regressive or conservative wants to maintain the status quo or repeal progression. What’s progression? Anything that stems from the values of the enlightenment, democracy, education, justice, meritocracy, civilization, reform, anti-corruption. People who thing the interests of the few are not by definition in the interests of the many, and the interests of the many are only expressed via democracy, and that requires education, health, and a clean environment to maximize the potential of our people and so that the people make wise decisions.
Reactionaries, harken back to Kings, and other non-democratic , elite governmental structures like Fascism. Progress is anti-oligarchy.
March 18, 2010 at 4:31 pm
Yes sir, Mr. random internet commenter.
March 17, 2010 at 12:12 pm
Oh, sure, mock Jane and FDL now. But you won’t be laughing so hard after she primaries that lying corporate whore sellout hack hypocrite Bernie Sanders and replaces him with Zombie Eugene V. Debs and a magic dolphin-pony.
March 17, 2010 at 12:30 pm
At which point Sanders will run in the general as an independent and win reëlection anyway.
March 17, 2010 at 12:46 pm
Bernie is ALREADY an Independent.
March 17, 2010 at 12:55 pm
See!
March 17, 2010 at 12:46 pm
Do they have Primaries for the socialists in Vermont?
March 17, 2010 at 12:52 pm
In socialist Vermont, primaries have you.
March 17, 2010 at 12:34 pm
Have you noticed that the degree of sycophancy present in a blogger’s comment section is directly proportional to said blogger’s tendency to be a complete kook?
March 17, 2010 at 12:47 pm
Omigod, you are like so wise. And cool. And handsome. And exceptionally wellhung. And smart.
March 17, 2010 at 12:51 pm
Don’t know what that says about The Editors, but you better take it back right now.
March 17, 2010 at 12:54 pm
I hope it was obvious that I was referring to Hamsher.
March 18, 2010 at 12:11 pm
I thought you were talking about curv3ball. My bad.
March 18, 2010 at 12:18 pm
You know, like the Editors, now. Sometimes he gets so fuckign uebermeta all over the place that I really don;t know whether he is being just shrill, or reasonable, or a freaking jackanapes, or even if the distinction makes sense. It’s kinda like on MST3K when Joel and the bots would get a really not half-bad movie, one where the acting and direction are really not so awful, and they try too hard to get satirical with it, and what with Joel’s deadpan delivery and the ever-mounting obscurity of cultural references needed to keep the patter going, you wound up saying ‘Huh?’ with Tom Servo.
March 17, 2010 at 12:57 pm
http://thepragmaticprogressive.blogspot.com/2010/03/use-gop-whip-list-against-them-and-ask.html
March 17, 2010 at 1:30 pm
More Selling Points:
http://thepragmaticprogressive.blogspot.com/2010/03/top-immediate-benefits-from-obama.html
Can you tell I want this to pass?
March 17, 2010 at 3:46 pm
Frankly, what I can’t understand is why you are all so cavalier about ignoring Hamsher’s finest work to date? Why has no-one has yet mentioned the fact that she was the producer of _DOUBLE DRAGON: The Movie_
March 18, 2010 at 12:20 pm
See?, that’s what I’m talking about. Joel and the bots.
March 17, 2010 at 4:00 pm
If it costs the insurance companies less money to pay the fines to deny treatment than it would cost them to pay for treatment, what do you think the insurance companies will do?
I guess time will tell whether you or Jane are right, but I’m not betting on you.
Yeah – and those NAFTA reforms – aces!
March 17, 2010 at 4:43 pm
NAFTA? Um, what the hell does NAFTA have to do with this?
If it costs the insurance companies less money to pay the fines to deny treatment than it would cost them to pay for treatment, what do you think the insurance companies will do?
An insurance company just lost a lawsuit to someone for $15 million because they improperly denied him coverage.
And they have to cover him.
And if they improperly drop him again, he’ll sue, and he’ll win.
Those “fines” will cost a hell of a lot more than his coverage.
March 17, 2010 at 6:42 pm
The odds of “fixing” this so-called health care reform are as good as the odds of fixing NAFTA (which we are repeatedly promised will happen).
Perhaps if everyone who was properly denied treatment sued (and won), In$urance companies might behave differently. So pardon me if one nameless person won 1 lawsuit. I remember recently the
California insurance regulators levied a big fine against one of the health insurers for improperly denying coverage – a pattern of denying coverage improperly. The Ins. Co. refused to pay the fine. California decided to not pursue the matter because it would cost them too much money. Want me to predict the future?
March 18, 2010 at 6:46 am
Right, except it will be different if the law forbids them from dropping anyone. Everyone would sue and win on summary judgment. End of story. Seriously. The lawsuits would be quick and easy.
Now, insurance co’s can legally drop some people, so they pursue a policy of dropping too many people that get expensive illnesses. The lawsuits are harder to win, and in some instances impossible to win (technicalities may hold up, prior conditions may be proved, etc)
It’s night and day.
Your predictions don’t match the way the world works.
March 18, 2010 at 10:50 am
Actually – they can still drop people for “fraud” – so, the cancer patient who didn’t report her teenage acne in the application will be dropped for fraud, and then forced to re-apply at more expensive rates. Repeat ad nauseum.
March 18, 2010 at 10:57 am
And with the excise tax – it’s designed to stop people from going to the doctor. I think it was Gruber who said that the problem with health care costs was that people went to the doctor too much.
So, what happens when employers start obtaining crappier coverage to avoid increased taxes (or drop their plans altogether)? How’ll that play out politically?
Also, with no meaningful cost controls, most Americans will remain one serious illness or injury away from bankruptcy.
I guess I could just be being selfish: I’m a relatively healthy self-employed person who’s (well in several years?) will be forced into the individual insurance market forced to buy an inferior product from unscrupulous businesses (as even Obama acknowledges).
And, it really really bothers me when pom pom wavers like yourself tell me to be happy about a “progressive” victory! I mean – this was Bob Dole’s plan from 1994! How in the hell is that progressive?
March 18, 2010 at 11:10 am
Still drop people for fraud? Huh? I think you’re confused. It can’t be fraud to fail to report a previous condition because they can’t drop you or charge you more for that condition anyway.
Not in the bill.
March 18, 2010 at 11:16 am
Also, with no meaningful cost controls, most Americans will remain one serious illness or injury away from bankruptcy.
But it does have meaningful cost controls. It removes annual and lifetime caps, and demands a certain percentage of money collected in fees is paid out on care.
I guess I could just be being selfish: I’m a relatively healthy self-employed person who’s (well in several years?) will be forced into the individual insurance market forced to buy an inferior product from unscrupulous businesses (as even Obama acknowledges).
Inferior product as compared to what? Current insurance offerings pre-HCR? The HCR bill improves the product regardless. And, yeah, when your preferred course is to leave 31 million people without any insurance out of self-interest, I think selfish applies.
And, it really really bothers me when pom pom wavers like yourself tell me to be happy about a “progressive” victory!
Heh, didn’t actually tell you to be happy. Didn’t call it a progressive victory.
You know what really bothers me? When comfortable cynics put words in my mouth.
I mean – this was Bob Dole’s plan from 1994! How in the hell is that progressive?
Right. That’s a pattern. Every time HCR is shot down, it gets worse the next time it’s brought up. FDR’s plan was better than Truman’s. Truman’s was better than Nixon’s (which Teddy Kennedy killed because it wasn’t progressive enough – a proto-Jane Hamsher!). But Nixon’s plan was better than Clinton’s. And Clinton’s was better than Obama’s.
But if we just defeat this bill, 20 years down the road…ponies!!!!!
Right.
March 17, 2010 at 5:52 pm
I think that Congress and the Administration need constant pressure from the left in order to counterbalance the many institutionalized pressures to move right.
I think that’s what Jane’s trying to do.
March 18, 2010 at 6:47 am
Except she is going massively overboard. Pressure is awesome, commendable and necessary.
Trying desperately to sink a bill that will give coverage to 31 million people is…um, missing the point.
March 18, 2010 at 10:59 am
give coverage?
and aren’t there 40-45 million uninsured? What about the other 10-15 million? Oops?
March 18, 2010 at 11:09 am
Right. Because it only covers 31 million of the uninsured, we should defeat it and opt for…the status quo which doesn’t cover any of the 45 million uninsured.
Brilliant!
March 18, 2010 at 11:26 am
Time will tell, I guess. I hope you’re right, and I’m wrong.
March 18, 2010 at 11:40 am
I hope so too. The mandate might be hard to swallow, and a public option would have made that bitterness a little more palatable. But even single payer requires universal buy-in.
March 17, 2010 at 7:23 pm
Vermonters will never let Sanders go. They love him. No amount of money can defeat him.
March 18, 2010 at 12:48 am
It was a dark day when Marcos Moulitsas threatened to “primary” Kucinich for holding out on voting for this corporate welfare bill that masquerades as health care reform. Kucinich has cried “uncle” on the eve of the vote, for this bill that will set up the insurance corporations for a generation.
The fist inside the velvet glove is being brandished in Jane Hamsher’s direction for having pointed out Obama’s bad faith in this whole project and having shown how badly the progressives have been outgunned by corporate power.
This bill is going to be wildly unpopular because of the mandates that are shoveled in the direction of the insurance companies. It will be hated for the fines that people will have to pay into IRS coffers if they decline or can’t afford the premiums. The game has been rigged, and has been seen being rigged during this whole disgraceful, pusillanimous process of appeasing Big Pharma and the insurance giants.
Jane Hamsher writes:
“Forcing 31 million people to buy a product they don’t want and can’t afford to use does not constitute health care reform. Once again, the poor get used as human shields so corporations can be the beneficiaries of massive government bailout.”
March 18, 2010 at 6:50 am
Kucinich has cried “uncle” on the eve of the vote, for this bill that will set up the insurance corporations for a generation.
You do realize that the insurance companies have spent hundreds of millions of dollars trying to kill this bill, right? That they are furiously lobbying “centrist” Dems to vote against the bill.
And yet, foolish insurance companies, this bill will secretly be a massive win for them. And they just don’t get it! You know, if you let them know, they might pay you handsomely for saving them lobbying money.
Forcing 31 million people to buy a product they don’t want and can’t afford to use does not constitute health care reform. Once again, the poor get used as human shields so corporations can be the beneficiaries of massive government bailout.”
Um, even the public option requires buy in from everybody.
If they can’t afford it, there are generous subsidies. Forget about those?
The poor get the biggest break from this bill via subsidies to buy insurance that can’t be denie them.
March 18, 2010 at 1:41 pm
“Um, even the public option requires buy in from everybody.”
Yes, but the public option represents a lower administrative cost that would ease the burden on everyone. The Medicare option was terminated with extreme prejudice by Lieberman, and represented another, better way to handle costs.
And Jane Hamsher is right when she identifies the big insurers as the real beneficiaries in the so-called reform.
The moral thing to do would be to get the profit motive completely out of health care. But this idea is tarred and feathered, and deemed the perfect, the enemy of the doggone good.
Sure, the insurance companies are lobbying against the bill because they would much prefer a bill with no fetters at all; but naturally they prefer a system where prices are kept high.
The public has not failed to notice how detestable this legislative process has been; and Michael Moore has recently warned that if the Dems don’t get health care right, they are facing “an ass-whipping of biblical proportions” in the next congressional election.
Sure, Hamsher got bent out of shape a little in this public dust-up because she got the idea that she was being smeared. But this is happening in the political context of Marcos Moulitsas threatening to put someone up in the primaries against Kucinich. Dennis is voting yes with regret because he knows the bill is deeply flawed. This comes with a political cost. He is agreeing to give back the funds raised by Hamsher’s organization for his campaign chest as well.
Obama seems to have eased into the presidency with a built-in policing from the right, but now Moulitsas shows off the policing from the left. The President was on Fox News the other day, and he admitted, or offered as exculpatory evidence for Fox viewers, that there were many things the left wanted that he decided not to give them, because he thought it would be destructive to this health care process.
Well no surprise there; for it is a long, long list of things Obama has not given and has no intention of giving to progressives. But he still call them his friends. Time to chill.
March 19, 2010 at 6:55 am
The moral thing to do would be to get the profit motive completely out of health care. But this idea is tarred and feathered, and deemed the perfect, the enemy of the doggone good.
I agree. I fully 100% support the public option. Wanted it. CAlled my reps to get it. And guess what? It’s not in the bill. And unless Lieberman, Nelson, Lincoln, Landrieu AND at least one Republican votes for it, it will never be in the bill.
And the bill, as is, is better than no bill.
And Jane Hamsher is right when she identifies the big insurers as the real beneficiaries in the so-called reform.
No, the real beneficiaries are the 32 million that get coverage. Again, if the insurance industry was making out so well, why are they spending hundreds of millions to defeat it? Curious, huh.
Sure, the insurance companies are lobbying against the bill because they would much prefer a bill with no fetters at all; but naturally they prefer a system where prices are kept high.
So, the bill is a net negative for insurance companies. Such a net negative that it was worth hundreds of millions in lobbying against. Those are some decent “fetters.”
The public has not failed to notice how detestable this legislative process has been; and Michael Moore has recently warned that if the Dems don’t get health care right, they are facing “an ass-whipping of biblical proportions” in the next congressional election.
And Michael Moore also supports passing this bill. Then fixing later. Which is what I would like.
Obama seems to have eased into the presidency with a built-in policing from the right, but now Moulitsas shows off the policing from the left.
Not really, just a recognition that this is the best option now given the GOP’s pledge to filibuster anything better. Hell, even if they put the current bill to a vote in the Senate it wouldn’t pass now that Brown is in.
March 18, 2010 at 4:09 am
‘Finally, as Dennis Kucinich has now come around to being able to vote for the Senate bill (and you can bet there’s gonna be a convulsion in Left Blogsylvania about his flip-flop), it needs to be repeated: this is not a good bill. This is a huge payday to the very corporations who should be dissolved and whose CEOs should be ass-fucked by angry baboons with jungle crabs and then forced to bleed and itch without access to even a first aid kit. ~ http://rudepundit.blogspot.com
March 18, 2010 at 4:39 am
You have a good link and quote. I have a better one.
“… Health Care Reform. From what I can gather, it has divided us into the People’s Front of Judea, the Judean People’s Front, and the Judean Popular People’s Front.
Splitters all.
I am not as invested in HCR as, well, almost all of you are, but I understand your concerns. But here is the thing: In a few months we are going to be looking at the 2010 elections and you will find that all of your purity trolling and finger pointing and blame casting and the self-righteousness that is turning the Democratic party into an open-air abattoir will not, in the long run, prove to be helpful.
Therefore, I would like to slip on my dad sweater, plop all of you on my knee, take a puff of my pipe and give you some fatherly advice:
Chill the fuck out.
Thank you. You may now go back to destroying America.”
Ouch that’s got to leave a mark. But you ain’t seen nothing yet. The url
http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2010/03/16/the-return-of-this-is-why-you-cant-have-nice-things/
Yep you read that right. This was written on Jane Hamsher’s group blog. Dear Jane, when your own subordinate and co-blogger is saying you are destroying America, you have a problem.
March 18, 2010 at 10:16 am
Actually, I thought Bernie Sanders was Zombie Eugene V. Debs. So that pretty much means Ms. Hamsher is holding out for the magic dolphin-pony part. And more power to her. No, really: the electroshock obviously needs to be turned up a notch.
March 22, 2010 at 11:17 am
seriosely? I’m writing from the future, and the watered-down version of HCR that everyone has anticipated would pass, has passed. It should come to no surprise to you past-dwellers that HCR does not include a public option. Therefore, conservatives can bitch without irony that there are no cost controls in “Obamacare.” Oh, also, we future-dwellers have accepted the fact that Firedoglake and Jane Hamsher fought the good fight, and it goes without saying that Hamsher’s quest for the public option was in no way quixotic given that Democrats in the Senate said they were for the public option. The only excuse offered for refusing to fight for the public option was that Democrats lost their extremely intimidating and effective supermajority (narf).
March 22, 2010 at 1:07 pm
Oh, also, we future-dwellers have accepted the fact that Firedoglake and Jane Hamsher fought the good fight, and it goes without saying that Hamsher’s quest for the public option was in no way quixotic given that Democrats in the Senate said they were for the public option. The only excuse offered for refusing to fight for the public option was that Democrats lost their extremely intimidating and effective supermajority (narf).
Ha.
Yeah. The Dem majority was pushing for the public option, and if it wasn’t for the majority of Dems abandoning the fight for the public option, the majority of Dems would have gotten their way.
Hint: if a majority wanted it, the majority would have gotten it by virtue of its majority-hood.
That is, unless the inclusion of a public option would have required a re-vote in the Senate, at which point the GOP would have filibustered.
Narf, narf.
March 22, 2010 at 3:02 pm
My marker for Obama was whether he’d get a health care bill with a public option. He didn’t. A year ago passage of some sort of health care reform seemed inevitable, and not a tremendous challenge. Only a year of dithering and bipartisaning and gangs of wankers and pre-compromising and, frankly, failure to put forward something simple and popular jeopardized it.
The bill’s more good than bad, but it isn’t what we should have gotten. It isn’t what we voted for.
-Atrios
March 23, 2010 at 7:30 am
Well, then Atrios is fucking retarded. Because we didn’t have the votes for the public option, and I know the under belly of every critter in that Forest. We could all be super dicks, and add the public option via reconciliation before the health exchanges go-online by 2014 when the public is less like a cat hanging upside down from the ceiling by it’s claws. comes down like a good kitty for nub nubs…
but ooops, that’s exactly how it will go down….
My marker is saving as many of the 45,000 that needlessly die every year, establishing a framework that will added to for the rest of our lives, just like all major initiatives are, and get something instead of the nothing that we had for the working poor. Because, that’s who this is going to help. Oh, and those nasty kids too.
March 23, 2010 at 8:26 am
But Atrios isn’t actually saying the votes were there, just that Obama should have made more of a push – then maybe.
Which is about right.
But to say that the majority of Dems in the Senate want it now is odd because…well, the majority of Dems have the option of voting in favor of it. If they want. Lord knows the House wants it.
March 23, 2010 at 8:37 am
Always leave them wanting more. Cynical, but they want to continue to campaign on adding the public option later.
The Small State Senators with power like Baucus and Conrad killed the PO in that Fiance committee, if they wanted to, yes they could have theoretically kept it in during reconciliation. The Dems also felt that was the best way to keep a lot of anti- reform money on the sidelines, people don’t recognize this, but we outspent the anti-reform powers. Barely, but we did. We have twice as much Cash then the GOP heading into 2010 in the DCCC, DSCC, DNC, etc.
The Public Option will be added later, it’s popular, there’s a great demand for it, people like this plan but want it to be more progressive,so keep asking for it.
March 23, 2010 at 8:40 am
With 70%+ of the public in favor of a public option, hell add it now. It’s in the House Version. But then it would go back to the House for another vote. It’s possible. It would get 51 votes.