So, based on the trove of recently released Wikileaks diplomatic cables, I gather that Saudi elites consider Iran a threat and are all like, “Hey United States, let’s you and him fight.”*
Drawing on data from the same document dump, we learn (or, rather, find official confirmation for the proposition) that some of those same Saudi elites think al-Qaeda is a fabulous organization, doing Allah’s work, and is deserving of generous endowments and other cash payments. That in addition to generally funding the spread of a particularly virulent, radical interpretation of Islam around the globe (including here in the States!) by and through various means.
So I got to thinking: Maybe we shouldnt take foreign policy cues from Saudi elites. Maybe, just maybe, they don’t have our best interests at heart. Something to think about as we load the bombs for Operation Enduring Iran Freedom Hope Justice Strike.
In less, er, diplomatic parlance, Jason Sigger:
I don’t understand the Arab world, but let me say that I’m quite annoyed by this Machevelian scheming where the Gulf States all seem to expect the US military to act as their bitches to achieve their political objectives, while they sit back on their billions of dollars in defense systems and do… nothing. Listen, you fat fucks, you oil-bloated family dynasties, if you want Iran’s regime toppled, get some skin in the game. Form an Arab military coalition and attack Iran. You’ll make Israel really happy. I’m sure the US government will give you all the targeting data you could want. But really. Fuck off with your suggestions to the US government that we act as your bully boys.
I do wonder how the Arab world could have come up with the crazy idea that the United States would ever be willing to act as the outsized proxy of much smaller Middle East powers, like some ferocious dog being wagged by its tail. I mean, really.
[* edited for the provincial types]
November 30, 2010 at 12:01 pm
I do wonder how the Arab world could have come up with the crazy idea that the United States would ever be willing to act as the outsized proxy of much smaller Middle East powers, like some ferocious dog being wagged by its tail. I mean, really.
Now you’re just being shrill. And Not Serious.
November 30, 2010 at 12:07 pm
I’m a bit exasperated that even the kids who sit in the front row, like curv3ball here, are taking the “Arabs want to attack Iran” diplomat-messaging entirely at face value.
Why would Arab diplomats lie about something like that, eh? Or at least only tell Foggy Bottom what they want to hear? It’s not like any of these Middle Eastern nations are involved in an enormous arms trade with Unca Sam, or looking for any sort of concessions or handouts or anything.
November 30, 2010 at 12:29 pm
All of that is true. And other possibilities exist.
And yet, it is not exactly a stretch to think that the Saudi elites might want the US to knock a regional rival down a peg or two.
Not “Arabs” – as the general population in each of those countries opposes war, which is one of the reasons that the leaders only makes such requests in private, confidentially (regardless of whether or not such requests are sincere).
November 30, 2010 at 2:03 pm
Or maybe lefty observers have just as much of a hard-on for warmongering as their righty counterparts?
Of course the lefties get off on the striptease of exposure, rather than in the piling-on gang-bang fantasy, and hooray for that, but lefties do seem willing to indulge in a bit of Occam-evading contortion to keep the rageholic binge rolling.
November 30, 2010 at 2:08 pm
I don’t know, probably depends on the “lefty observer” whatever that means.
As for me, nah. Don’t go in for the war stuff much. I devote my time to trying to avoid the next one, and trying to get out of the current one.
Alos, are you really suggesting that even entertaining the possibility that the Saudis are rivals with the Iranians is to contort oneself?
Isn’t there some regional history that would call into question that particular act of pretzel making?
December 1, 2010 at 6:21 am
It’s not JUST “regional rival”, it’s Shia vs Sunni…and those various Arab gulf states are Sunni-run with restive Shia minorities (or sometimes, majorities, IIRC).
So: regional rival, Arab vs. Persian, Sunni vs. Shia. You don’t have to choose, you can click “all of the above”
November 30, 2010 at 12:13 pm
I don’t think curv3ball is taking anything at face value. He noted that they talk big talk about somebody else (us) doing something, but never put their own skin in the game. That isn’t taking things at face value, that’s reading between lines.
November 30, 2010 at 7:29 pm
And being aware of recent and semi-recent history.
November 30, 2010 at 12:45 pm
I suggest we rock Iran’s butt with a 12″ cut called “Disco Kryptonite.”
November 30, 2010 at 12:51 pm
Or we could try “more dub less troub”
November 30, 2010 at 7:32 pm
Maybe the State Department could organize a reggae revival in Iran, complete with massive imports of ganga.
December 2, 2010 at 10:56 am
I think we should bomb them with *bling*.
November 30, 2010 at 1:39 pm
Look lotsa people say weird shit in private. Stuff they think we wanna hear.
But yeah, the Saudis have been trying to convert America into the shield and spear of Allah for some time. Who exactly do you think funds all those Somali families coming over here and getting green cards and citizenships? Even when they are 90% involved in prostitution rings (Duluth, Minn) carjacking rings (Twin Cities, Duluth, Rochester), qat smuggling rings, and of course, terra. Not to mention piracy in their own country.
And it makes sense too. The Semale are the warlord tribes, the banditti class. Kinda like as if Spain decided to import Navajos in the early 19th century instead of maybe Pueblos.
November 30, 2010 at 3:31 pm
Trouble is, both Israel and Saudi Arabia want us to carry their water for them. One wants us to sell them weapons, prop up their economy, shelter them at the U.N.–and then they still treat us with contempt.
The other thinks it can use us as its mercenaries, and do the killing and dying for them (hey, they got us to do it once before), so they can continue to keep us hooked on oil, while taking billions of our money. And they , too, are contemptuous of us.
Well, so much for our BFFs…
November 30, 2010 at 7:38 pm
thoreau: Now you’re just being shrill. And Not Serious.
What does that mean exactly?
November 30, 2010 at 7:53 pm
My question is: Why must Exxon, Haliburton, etc, etc, continue to drag all of us into these stupid fights?
That’s rhetorical, of course.
November 30, 2010 at 10:41 pm
Gummint sanctioned payola except we’re footing the bill.
November 30, 2010 at 11:10 pm
Down here we say ‘let’s you and him fight.’ But WTF do we know? One love.
December 1, 2010 at 7:35 am
You’re clearly unfamiliar with diplomatic protocols and associated jargon.
December 1, 2010 at 11:41 am
What goes around comes around.
I remember an American diplomat who was asked what the US was doing to reduce tensions between India and Pakistan following Indira Gandhi’s assassination saying that “we’re selling arms to both sides”, all while keeping a straight face.
December 1, 2010 at 2:02 pm
Since the US’s single largest contribution to the world was proving that a nation can shed the feudalistic model of hereditary titles, royalist government and entrenched church power and, in a handful of generations, become the wealthiest and most powerful nation on the planet, perhaps we shouldn’t be playing nicey-nice with absolute monarch/theocracies to begin with.
December 2, 2010 at 8:13 am
You would think so. But then again that marks you as being an unwashed DFH UnSerious Shrill member of the hoi polloi.
December 2, 2010 at 10:59 am
And therefore we must worship you along with the Aqua Buddha.
December 2, 2010 at 7:17 pm
Hear fucking hear. +1 and such like.
December 2, 2010 at 11:22 pm
You know, this rent-a-vatar is great. I always wanted to be a teal triangle wearing a pince-nez.
December 4, 2010 at 9:51 pm
That’s not teal; it’s aqua. Or turquoise.
December 4, 2010 at 11:41 pm
The octagon reflects my conservative street cred – I must be a regular Chuck effin Norris!
December 7, 2010 at 9:12 am
I view life through teal-colored pince-nez.
December 7, 2010 at 9:13 am
Congratulations, Colonel Lingus: you’ve squared the circle jerk!
December 5, 2010 at 7:08 pm
I’d rather wear a Prince fez.
December 8, 2010 at 5:10 am
Had an argument last night with the wife, regarding the most likely scenario for what Julian Assange was up to that got him arrested – “sure, I should have known you’d always side with the rapist” was her response.
Cause no matter what embarrassing things someone reveals about what the US government has done, the one thing we know is that Murkha would never cook up a scheme to entrap them. (Bonus extra points – last night’s News Hour featured an attorney who was practically soiling himself in excitement over Assange’s arrest – “he should be charged with revealing the identity of covert agents!” – I nearly choked on my spinach pie.
December 8, 2010 at 5:11 am
)
December 13, 2010 at 10:40 am
It was obvious from this second round of sex crime accusations that it was all a front for having an acceptable reason to arrest Assange, so why did he (1) go to Britain fer Christ’s sake, and then (2) turn himself in? Iceland would hace been a much better choice, amongst others.
David Seaton made a few interesting points along the lines that this is the quiet period where US intelligence is setting out to suddenly roll up everyone in Wiki’s inner circle who can release Assange’s “insurance file”. Does anything else make sense here?
December 13, 2010 at 7:11 pm
If your own wife thinks you’re way too sympathetic to rapists, well uh…I dunno man…search that soul.
December 13, 2010 at 11:11 am
David Seaton made a few interesting points along the lines that this is the quiet period where US intelligence is setting out to suddenly roll up everyone in Wiki’s inner circle who can release Assange’s “insurance file”. Does anything else make sense here?
They have to be pretty certain that they get everybody. They have to be pretty certain that nobody left the encryption key in a document entrusted to the custody of an attorney. They have to be pretty certain that they get everybody simultaneously, so that none of them finds out that his friends are dead or missing and hits “send.” When they do the raids, they have to be sure that none of the targets hears the heat coming and hits “send” before the door is knocked down. They have to be pretty certain that the encryption key isn’t in a file that’s automatically posted to the web if a user doesn’t log in every 24 hours. And a whole bunch of other scenarios that a paranoid hacker might prepare.
So, an operation to roll up those who can release the insurance file requires either (1) super-duper competence to succeed or (2) extreme self-delusion to attempt something that is almost guaranteed to fail.
Extreme competence is rare. Extreme self-delusion is more common, but all it takes is one or two sensible people in the right places to say “This is ridiculous” and kill the plan.